Intelligent Reasoning

Promoting, advancing and defending Intelligent Design via data, logic and Intelligent Reasoning and exposing the theory of evolution as the nonsense it is. I also educate evotards about ID and the theory of evolution one tard at a time and sometimes in groups

Thursday, July 26, 2012

Kevin ReTARD McCarthy- AKA Ogre MKV- Cowardly Equivocator and Ignorant of Genetics

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Kevin, you are one ignorant dickhead.

Kevin spews:
BTW: Joe, our position (i.e. evolution) does NOT require that there existed a species of ape-humans with 47 chromosomes.

No, the theory of evolution requires there be individuals with 47 chromosomes.

This is how it works you fucking moron:

You have a population with 48 chromosomes. A fusion occurs in one gamete and that gamete now has 23 as opposed to 24. That gamete with 23 connects with the opposing/ other-sex gamete that has 24. 23 + 24 = 47.

That is how it starts. Then 47 spreads in the population until a 46 appears.

Simple math and genetics Kevbo. I can see how you would manage to fuck it up.

64 Comments:

  • At 10:15 PM, Blogger OgreMkV said…

    Hey Joe, this isn't evidence for Intelligent Design.

    YOU linked to this blog post saying that there is lots of evidence for intelligent design.

    Yet, in 4 years of 'knowing' you, you have yet to actually present any evidence for intelligent design. Calling someone stupid when they ask for evidence isn't evidence for ID. It's evidence that you are the absolute worst teacher in the history of mankind.

    If you have evidence. Lay it out. Present it in detail. If you think someone doesn't understand then don't call them stupid, explain it a different way.

    Perhaps you could work out examples and show the work.

    Oh as for all the things you claim are evidence (forensics and anthropology, for example) that's not evidence of intelligent design by a supernatural entity. It's evidence that humans are indeed capable of designing things. Not that all things must be designed by intelligence.

    Further Joe, you really should get some education in the process of mitosis and meiosis. In which the chromosome number can change pretty radically in even a single generation. I gave you the example of triticale on Carl Zimmer's blog. Shockingly, I guess you haven't done the requisite research to understand the concept yet.

    And no, only your strawman version of evolution requires that there must be a human (of some type) with 47 chromosomes between modern humans (with 46) and the rest of our lineage (with 48). And even further, if you knew jack shit about chromosomes, you should know why that is one of the dumbest statements ever out of your mouth.

    It's not quite as good as "Is hail made out of water" or "m = millenia", but close.

     
  • At 11:01 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Kevin- you are a complete imbecile. I linked to this blog because you are ignorant and apparently proud of it.

    That said I and others have presented evidence for ID. As I said you are just too stupid to understand it.

    IDists have laid done actual criteria for dtecting design and also how to refute any given design inference.

    That said ID does not posit a supernatural entity- you are a clueless and dishonest tard.

    Also I understand mitosis and meiosis- obviously much better than you do.

    What I said in the OP is spot on you ignorant fuck. Do you think this is the first time I brought it up? No- I have had this discussion with evolutionary biologists and they agree with me.

    One more time-

    You have a population with 48 chromosomes. A fusion occurs in one gamete and that gamete now has 23 as opposed to 24. That gamete with 23 connects with the opposing/ other-sex gamete that has 24. 23 + 24 = 47.

    Please deal with that or admit you are an ignorant coward.

    And hail is still made up of ice and the "millenia" thing was a joke- the smiley face should have been a clue but then again you are an ignorant little faggot.

    And please, what the fuck does triticale have to do with human chromosome 2 and the alleged fusion and what I said we should see?

    Or are you too much of a coward to actually make a case as opposed to your vague dickheadedness?

     
  • At 11:05 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Once again- the fusion occurred in the GAMETE, which means it happened AFTER meiosis.

    In the gamete it turned 24 into 23.

    What part of that are you too stupid to understand?

    Holy shit I can't believe how ignorant you are.

     
  • At 11:07 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    BTW assface coward, I don't care if you post my comments that I leave on your blog. YOU read them and that is all I care about- they are for YOU- dumbass.

     
  • At 11:14 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Just left this over at the swamp:

    So let me get this straight. There was a gamete that had 24 chromosomes- a gamete, meaning after meiosis. In this gamete two chromosomes fused together reducing the total number of chromosomes by one.

    24 -1 = 23

    Now for that 23 to get passed along it had to team up with a 24:

    23 + 24 = 47

    Fucking magic!

    Kevin- you are one proudly ignorant mother fucker

    bless your pointy little head

     
  • At 1:13 AM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Alright chubs! Smarting from Carl Zimmer's excellent beatdown of ENV / DI ? No wonder they don't allow comments, they'd get spanked on a daily basis. Calculated any CSI yet? thought not.

     
  • At 1:19 AM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Oh Ps - they're laughing at you, your lack of any understanding and your misrepresentation over at AtBC. You should stop by more often!

     
  • At 8:43 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Umm Zimmer doesn't have anything to smack with, you dim-witted asswipe.

    As for AtBC they are also a bunch of ignorant faggots who have nothing to laugh at but laugh because they are ignorant- just like you.

     
  • At 12:10 PM, Blogger OgreMkV said…

    Hey Joe.

    Can you link to a single piece of evidence that unequivocally supports ID?

     
  • At 3:24 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Yes I can Kevin. Can you link to a single piece of evidence that unequivocally supports the accumulation of random mutations constructing new multi-protein machinery? I didn't think so.

     
  • At 3:27 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Is there ANY evidence taht unequivocally supports evolutionism or materialism?

    Absolutely NOT.

    You lose Kevin, as usual...

     
  • At 3:35 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    BTW Kevin- are you going to apologize to me for being such an ignorant asshole? Or are you too much of a coward to admit that you blew it big time?

     
  • At 7:53 PM, Blogger OgreMkV said…

    OK. let's try a new tactic.

    Joe, WILL you link to a piece of peer-reviewed evidence that unambiguously supports intelligent design? Ya see, in spite of this mountain of evidence you keep claiming exists, I have never seen any. Heck, no reputable scientist that I'm aware of has seen any of this evidence. You guys are so good at keeping it secret.

    Tell you what, since the evidence really should be unambiguous, then just point me to the resource and I'll read it.

    If I have questions, then I can come to you for answers. Fair enough?

    I'll check back in a bit... or you can post the link at AtBC.

    Thanks

     
  • At 11:02 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Here's the new tactic kevin- admit that you fucked up big with respect to the chromosome fusion and then we can can discuss something else.

    Ya see if you are too small to even do that, in the face of overwhelming evidence that you bit the big one, then there is no way you will accept any evidence for ID.

    And you have given no indication that you even know what evidence is. Just look at how ignorant you were of the evidence for for the alleged chromosomal fusion.

    So we have to start small, because you are obviously a small person.

    And no, I feel slimed enough by going to the swamp the past 24 hours. I may be back in a few months- please hold your breath.

     
  • At 4:22 PM, Blogger OgreMkV said…

    Sorry Joe, I haven't discussed chromosome fusion and if I had I wouldn't have, as you so eloquently put it, "fucked up". There's nothing to mess up. It's very cut and dried.

    Of course, in your mind it just means the designer cut and pasted large chunks of DNA, but have zero evidence for that.

    No, this entire discussion revolves around one claim you wanted to make on my blog. That state is, "BTW there is plenty of positive evidence for ID- you are just too stupid to know what evidence is".

    Since you claim there is plenty of evidence, I'm asking that you link to some of it.

    Your continued lack of posting a single piece of evidence that supports ID is noted.

     
  • At 6:09 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Yes, you are sorry. The whole point behind your ignorant diatribe was the fusion and the fact there had to be individuals with an odd number of chromsomes- something you insisted could not exist.

    And actually I have made several claims on your blog. One of them highlighting your ignorance of genetics and linking to this thread.

    The one about ID having positive evidence I have made more than once and supported. Your "response" was to say "that's not evidence" because you are a totally ignorant fuck.

    All that said the fact that you insist that you didn't fuck up with respect to the fusion is proof that you are a lowlife loser and coward.

     
  • At 6:12 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    One more time for the fucking liar coward McCarthy-

    HE said:
    And no, only your strawman version of evolution requires that there must be a human (of some type) with 47 chromosomes between modern humans (with 46) and the rest of our lineage (with 48). And even further, if you knew jack shit about chromosomes, you should know why that is one of the dumbest statements ever out of your mouth.

    However REALITY says that the fusion occurred in a gamete which chnged the chrosome number in that gamete from 24 to 23. that 23 then linked up with a 24. 23 + 24 = 47

    See Kevin? According to you, you are one of the dumbest things ever.

    And hail is stil made up of ICE, dumbass.

     
  • At 6:34 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    BTW Kevin, YOU don't get to tell me what this entire discussion revolves around. You are an arrogant shit for such a little fuck.

    This thread, and therefor this discussion, revolves around your ignorance of genetics and the alleged fusion event for human chromosome 2.

    As I have been saying-> you are too ignorant to understand anything and now you have to lie to try to cover for your ignorance.

     
  • At 11:11 AM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Idiot Joe owned again, has sweaty meltdown. Pathetic.

     
  • At 11:14 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    I am "owned" because Kevin is an ignorant fuck and you are a lying coward?

    How does that work?

    Oh, that's right, you can only spew your shit...

    Pathetic

     
  • At 11:19 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    I expose Kevin for the poseur he is, making him my bitch and Richie, aka Captain Coward, tries to rescue my bitch with raw spewage.

    It's fascinating how small minds work.

     
  • At 11:38 AM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Joe - Reality check. People just come here to laugh at you. You're so fundamentally backwards that even CH moderates you. Now go and have a comfort donut.

     
  • At 11:45 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Reality check-

    I have exposed Richie's ignorance on many occasions. And true all ignorant Richie can do is laugh.

    Richie you are such a coward all you can do is spew lies and false accusations.

    Now go and fuck your cat, again...

     
  • At 11:46 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    So I am "fundamentally backwards" because YOU are an ignorant fucking faggot?

    Is tat how your little bitty mind works cupcake?

     
  • At 11:49 AM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Look at you chubs, two angry, barely literate replies for every comment. What a sad little man.

     
  • At 11:51 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Lok at you faggot- all lies and false accusations. And yes it is true that anything wtitten would be "barely literate" to an ignorant fuck such as your self.

    What a pathetic little imp you are, even for a lying coward...

     
  • At 11:55 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    And now I am angry because I am laughing at you?

    You are so fucking desperate. It is sad that you are considered to be a human.

     
  • At 12:00 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Bwahahahah! You're so angry, you can't even get the first word out!

     
  • At 12:02 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    BWAAAAAAHAAAAA- Your desperation is still showing

    But then again all barely literate people are desperate to begin with, and here you are

     
  • At 12:06 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    So to recap- I have exposed Richie's ignorance of many occasions, making him my bitch. I have exposed McCarthy's ignorance on many occasions, making him my bitch. And now my bitches are in desperation mode and rebelling.

    I may need to go to pimp school to learn how to keep my bitches in line.

     
  • At 12:11 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Oh, to be as erudite and articulate as you Joe!

    Wistfully the tick
    upon the melon playeth
    tis this folly science?
    "Yes!" the kitten sayeth.

     
  • At 12:19 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    So Richie Hughes is proud to be a barely literate desperate housewife.

    We don't need any more proof, Richie. We get it already.

     
  • At 12:21 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Cupcake, the only "we" here is the voices in your head.

    What was that Jim?
    Good point Johnpaul!

     
  • At 12:28 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Oh, to be as dishonest and lowly as you, Richie

    Were you born and asshole?
    Or did you work in it your whole life?
    Either way out worked out, cause your an asshole tonight (and yesterday, and the day before)

    I was talking to your mother
    Just the other night
    I told her thought your an asshole
    SHE said "Yes, I think you're right"

     
  • At 12:30 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Hey pumpkin- the "we" refers to anyone who has ever dealt with you.

    Or are you saying that I am your only contact? All the UD regulars know it. All the Telic Thoughts members know it. And your evoTARD brothers are too stupid and like you for entertainment only.

     
  • At 12:35 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Oh, so you know anyone who has ever delt with me. And once more Joe's 'creative' side gets the better of him. Who gets moderated more Joe? Me or you?

     
  • At 12:46 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Yes, dumbass. I have been on forums that you have participated in. And your stupidity is laughed at there too.

    You are an ass kissing fuck, Richie. The lowest of the low. No one moderates you, they just ban you, leave you alone or laugh at you.

    As for 'creative'- you are the asshole 'creating' false accusations and lies.

    Again the barely literate desperate housewife is exposed...

     
  • At 12:55 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Who gets moderated more, Joe? You or me?

     
  • At 1:05 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Well you have been banned from most of the places I post- or you are just too chicken-shit to post there under your name.

    So that must count against you. You are a scientifically iliterate ass-kisser, so evos don't modertate you. Unlike you I dare venture to my opponents places and call them out. And yes, evos, being the chicken-shits they are, will tend to moderate me over you, their ignorant ass-kisser.

    And even I, as lenient as my moderation policies are, moderate you. And if the chicken-shit evos were as lenient as I am they wouldn't moderate me.

    So why are you choosing such a pussy subjective topic as some sort of measure of something?

     
  • At 1:06 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Who spews more lies and false accusations? Richie Hughes, aka Captain Coward

     
  • At 1:07 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Who doesn't even understand the genetics I mentioned pertaining to the alleged fusion? Richie and McCarthy- and it appears a host of other evoTARDs

     
  • At 1:12 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Who gets moderated more Joe? Me or you?

     
  • At 1:17 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Only a little faggot would be concerned with such a subjective metric so I have no idea.

    What I do know is that you are ignorant of genetics and science. And people keep you around because you can sling shit at their opponents.

     
  • At 1:19 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Who gets moderated more, Joe? Me or you?

     
  • At 1:23 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    I don't know, Richie. I wouldn't even know how to tell.

    And as I said only a little faggot would care about such a subjective metric and here you are trying to make some big deal out of it.

     
  • At 1:26 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    RichTARD Hughes, barely literate desperate housewife in action.

    THIS is exactly why the other evos keep you around Richie. You are one of their jesters.

     
  • At 1:26 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    You don't know how to tell? You idiot.

     
  • At 1:35 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    No, for one I do not know all of your socks. And I am sure you have many.

    Then there is the subjective criteria in which you should have been moderated and were not- by not posting in good faith and being a lying fuck.

    Then there is the fact that I moderate you which means that you are a pathetic lowlife.

    So no, Richie, there are too many variables and the topic too subjective to even begin.

    But, you, being the desperate housewife you are, can have a go at it.

    Please show all of your work.

    Thanks, I am interested in what you come up with- give us the numbers!

    Or fuck off

     
  • At 1:37 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    But if I had to hazard a guess I would say that you get moderated more than I do, or at least you should.

     
  • At 5:33 PM, Blogger OgreMkV said…

    So. Still no links to evidence for ID?

    Bluff, yell, curse, scream, cry, bitch, moan all you like.

    Not a single bit of it is evidence for Intelligent Design.

    And yes, Joe, when you come on my blog and harrass me, then I DO get to decide what the conversation is about. Right now, it's your utter and complete failure to provide a single piece of evidence that supports any version of Intelligent Design... or even non-intelligent design.

     
  • At 5:52 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Kevin, YOU are an ignorant son of a bitch and a proven liar. You choked on the chromosome fusion and are too small to admit it.

    And no you don't get to decide anything with respect to me. And seeing that you came here spewing your ignorance and can't even admit it, you obvioulsy are too stupid to understand what evidence is.

    You can bluff, yell, curse, scream, cry, bitch, lie and moan all you like, you are an ignorant faggot. That is what the evidence says anyway.

    And asshole, all you have to do is search my blog and there is plenty of evidence for Intelligent Design.

    I take it that you are too stupid to even do that.

    But then again you don't have a clue as to what evidence is.

     
  • At 6:02 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    OK Kevin, seeing that you are determined to be a dishonest fucking coward, let's try this tactic:

    How to Test and Falisfy Intelligent Design

    And yes, there is plenty of evidence that fits in with that. I will link to that next, after you continue to choke on everything else.

     
  • At 6:17 PM, Blogger OgreMkV said…

    OK, so ID is anti-evolution after all. After all, according to you, only by eliminating any form of natural explanation can we begin to suggest a designer.

    Thanks for the own goal, BTW. This is an explanation of how it MIGHT be testable (it's not) and how it might be falsifiable (it's not).

    Regardless of those two points, this isn't actually EVIDENCE. To have EVIDENCE, you would actually have to run some kind of experiment and prove (somehow) that no other explanation could account for the whatever.

    Unfortunately, non-intelligent sources (i.e. nature) has been shown to be perfectly capable of generating structures that would be considered irreducibly complex. Since, you cannot eliminate natural explanations, then ID is never needed.

    I guess you'll yell some more, but as we've already established, that's not evidence... and neither is anything in the blog post you linked to.

     
  • At 6:37 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Kevin- you are one twisted and ignorant fuck.

    "Evolution" is merely the change in allele frequency over time. ID is OK with that. ID is OK with natural selection and if you have natural selection you have evolution.

    Don't you ever get sick of your ignorance?

    Just because the change is teleological doesn't mean it isn't evolution.

    YOU don't get to redefine evolution.

    And it is testable and falsifiable, unlike your position which is neither. Your projection is duly noted.

    And again you fucking lowlife moron, I said we had to START there. Because if you don't even understand taht then we cannot discuss evidence- which BTW you are too stupid to understand anyway so there is really no use discussing evidence with you.

    The evidence comes after you know how to assess the evidence, dumbass. And you don't have a fucking clue as to how to do that.

    You say:
    Unfortunately, non-intelligent sources (i.e. nature) has been shown to be perfectly capable of generating structures that would be considered irreducibly complex.

    You are either a fool or a liar, perhaps a lot of both.

    Obviously you are too stupid to understand what I post, too stupid to understand genetics, as evidenced by your fusion baffoonery, and you are just plain ignorant when it comes to evidence. And you are a big coward.

    So what do you have left? More bullshit and lies I bet.

     
  • At 6:39 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Thanks for the own goal, BTW.

    Only in your little bitty pointed head.

    This is an explanation of how it MIGHT be testable (it's not) and how it might be falsifiable (it's not).

    Nope, it is an explanation of how it is testable and how it is falsifiable.

    Again your ignorance is not a refutation of reality. And your ignorance is all you have.

     
  • At 6:46 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    And allow me to clear up another one of your misconceptions- I do not go to your blog to harrass you, I go there to correct your lies and misrepresentations. And that is why you censor me- because you are a cowardly liar.

    Got that?

     
  • At 6:59 PM, Blogger OgreMkV said…

    Joe,

    1) I censor you because you are an asshole and I don't want your vomit messing up my blog. If you could "correct" my "misconceptions" without vitriol and with links to evidence that supports your claims, then you would be allowed back.

    2) I did not define evolution. Please show me where I defined evolution. I don't have to because everyone, except you, understands the concepts that lie within it.

    3) Still no actual evidence. I further note, that except for strawman attacks, you didn't actually refute anything I said.

    4) I further note that I haven't tried to refute anything you have said because your 'points' and your assumption of what you think my position is... well... it's wrong. You actually don't get to define what I think evolution is or isn't.

    5) The simple fact that you do not understand genetics, 8th grade level chemistry, what evolution is, or even what Intelligent Design is just reinforces your position is a clueless moron.

    6) You do realize that The Hunter blog IS ON YOUR SIDE? right? You do understand that he supports ID right? In other words, you caused a supporter to effectively stunt his blog. You've done yeoman's work this weekend, Joe.

    Finally, I ask again. Where is this mountain of evidence that you claimed existed. If it was unambiguous, then I wouldn't have to worry about understanding it. Or perhaps, if you weren't an utter rat testicle, then you would man up and explain it as though you actually cared about whether people wanted to look at the evidence or not.

    The fact that you can do neither just provides more to the mountain of evidence that ID (and you, Joe) are utterly without value.

    My work here is done. Whenever you decide to actually link to the evidence... you know where I'll be. I look forward to never having to strain myself by examining this 'evidence'.

     
  • At 7:20 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Kevin,

    You are so fucking stupid that you don't even understand your position's evidence.

    1) I censor you because you are an asshole and I don't want your vomit messing up my blog. If you could "correct" my "misconceptions" without vitriol and with links to evidence that supports your claims, then you would be allowed back.

    Nope- you are a lying coward, period.

    2) I did not define evolution. Please show me where I defined evolution. I don't have to because everyone, except you, understands the concepts that lie within it.

    To call ID anti-evolution you have to redefine it, dumbass.

    ) Still no actual evidence.

    As I said first you have to understand how to assess evidence and what it is. You don't have any understanding of the concept.

    I further note, that except for strawman attacks, you didn't actually refute anything I said.

    Yes I did. You spewed:

    And no, only your strawman version of evolution requires that there must be a human (of some type) with 47 chromosomes between modern humans (with 46) and the rest of our lineage (with 48). And even further, if you knew jack shit about chromosomes, you should know why that is one of the dumbest statements ever out of your mouth.

    Which is something only a total ignoramus would say. Just because you can ignore all of my explanations and prattle on like a moron doesn't mean I haven't refuted you.

    4) I further note that I haven't tried to refute anything you have said because your 'points' and your assumption of what you think my position is... well... it's wrong. You actually don't get to define what I think evolution is or isn't.

    Dumbass. I don't care what you think. I am talking about mainstream science view of evolution. You are a fucking nobody.

    5) The simple fact that you do not understand genetics, 8th grade level chemistry, what evolution is, or even what Intelligent Design is just reinforces your position is a clueless moron.

    The evidence says I understand all of them better than you do.

    6) You do realize that The Hunter blog IS ON YOUR SIDE? right? You do understand that he supports ID right? In other words, you caused a supporter to effectively stunt his blog. You've done yeoman's work this weekend, Joe.

    Another lie from the cowardly liar. His blog is fine and he doesn't need evoTARDs polluting it.

    Finally, I ask again. Where is this mountain of evidence that you claimed existed.

    Quite a bit oif it is all over my blog. Again your cowardice and ignorance are not refutations.

    And again kevin you fucking lowlife- you don't know what evidence is. I even posted evidence for ID on your pitiful blog and you choked on it-

    So, yes, your cowardly deed is done here. Your lies and overall cowardice are duly noted.

     
  • At 7:22 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    And yes, I know where you will be, hiding behind your mother and wife, as all cowards do.

     
  • At 8:04 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    After all, according to you, only by eliminating any form of natural explanation can we begin to suggest a designer.

    Nope you have to eliminate blind and undirected processes. Ya see natural processes only exist in nature and therefor cannot account for its origin which science says it had.

    Not that your little mind can understand that

     
  • At 3:42 AM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    It's like the retarded version of Kalam. Sorry, MORE retarded version..

     
  • At 7:19 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Yes Richie- your position is very retarded. Thanks for finally coming out and admitting that.

     
  • At 8:41 AM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    No you are!

    what a fucking child.

     
  • At 9:43 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Yes, you also fuck children.

    Are you proud of that?

     

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