Intelligent Reasoning

Promoting, advancing and defending Intelligent Design via data, logic and Intelligent Reasoning and exposing the alleged theory of evolution as the nonsense it is. I also educate evotards about ID and the alleged theory of evolution one tard at a time and sometimes in groups

Tuesday, April 19, 2011

Electricity and Water

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Recently on Uncommon Descent a few evotards have attacked me for saying that electricity "hates" water

Wet electricity. Whereas the electricity that powers our computers is comes from the flow of electrons through a conductor and “hates” water, the electricity that runs our bodies is designed for a wet environment and uses pumped ions to convey differing messages to our command center.
(note the word hates is in "")

That quote can be found here and more recently here.

Now, years later, the evotardgasms are starting to fly over that. So to support my claim I posted the following link:

Water and Electricty Don't Mix

Does that help? Nope. The evotardgasms keep coming as in "we use water to make electricty. why would something that hates electricty be used to make it?"

Actually it's the FLOW of water, not just the water itself, that is used to make electricty. One form of energy transformed into another.

And if we want to get technical then water isn't the conductor people make it out to be. It is the dissolved minerals and gasses in the water that do the conducting trick. Purified water isn't a good conductor at all.

13 Comments:

  • At 12:50 PM, Blogger Tantalus Prime said…

    Joe,

    There are a few things I felt I should point out.

    First, your 9 February 2010 post states “However our nerves to not touch each other as wires do in an electrical system to make a circuit.” This is not entirely true. While the majority of neurons do have chemical synapses there are a small but significant proportion of direct electrical synapses between neurons. Also, glia make significant use of direct electrical connections. Perhaps you already knew this, but I would like to point out that this decreases the complexity of the system quite a bit.

    Second, you seem to be implying that electrical communication amongst neurons is different to electrical signals sent via wire. If so, this (almost) completely untrue. Electrophysiologists, when diagramming neuronal circuitry, make use of the same circuit diagrams and symbols that electricians, engineers, and technicians do. For example the cell membrane/ion channel follows very closely the properties of an RC circuit.

    Third, I am uncertain how the fact that water and electricity are dangerous equates to electricity “hates” water. Pure water is not conductive, sure, but neither is it common. The fact that our bodies predominantly make use of ions doesn’t really change much, except (depending on the ion) the sign of current flow. And it is not as if our bodies don’t transport electrons. The Kreb cycle, amongst other things, is dependent upon electron transport in mitochondria.

    Perhaps you could elaborate more and link to the posts in Uncommon Descent to which your refer?

     
  • At 1:41 PM, Blogger PTET said…

    People are mocking you, Joseph, because saying "water 'hates' electricity" isn't even wrong.

    Are you really surprised that the electrical currents created by our own bodies don't kill us?

     
  • At 1:46 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    PTET:
    Are you really surprised that the electrical currents created by our own bodies don't kill us?

    I take it you didn't read the blogs I linked to in the OP.

    Typical...

     
  • At 1:54 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Hi Tantalus Prime-

    Point one- understood. My point is the use of ions over electrons, along with the pumps and different neurotransmitters.

    You say:
    Second, you seem to be implying that electrical communication amongst neurons is different to electrical signals sent via wire.

    In a way it is and in a way it isn't. Wires do not need pumps to regulate the flow and reset the wire. But yes there is electricity flowing through us.

    Then you say:
    Third, I am uncertain how the fact that water and electricity are dangerous equates to electricity “hates” water.

    That was basically my point- the fact that the electricity running your body likes the wet environment- it doesn't bleed all over like it- the wet inside environment of your body- was one big node.

     
  • At 1:56 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    PTET:
    People are mocking you, Joseph, because saying "water 'hates' electricity" isn't even wrong.

    Most likely because they are too stupid to grasp the context...

     
  • At 2:39 PM, Blogger Tantalus Prime said…

    Joe said: “Point one- understood. My point is the use of ions over electrons, along with the pumps and different neurotransmitters.”

    But what is the point of that? If you wanted to make an electronic device using the flow of ions through an aqueous solution you could (it would be very inefficient, so I am not sure why you would). Whether you are talking electrons, protons, or ions you are talking about the movement of charged particles and, for electrical purposes, they are equivalent.

    Joe said: “In a way it is and in a way it isn't. Wires do not need pumps to regulate the flow and reset the wire. But yes there is electricity flowing through us.”

    As I said electrophysiologists have equivalent circuit diagrams for the neuron. The cell membrane acts as a capacitor, the ion channels act as a variable resistor, and the membrane potential acts as a battery which is maintained by the different concentrations of Na and K on the inside and outside of the membrane. The ion pumps are the biological equivalent of a battery charger.

    You are essentially claiming that electrical equipment does not need a power source.

    Joe: “That was basically my point- the fact that the electricity running your body likes the wet environment- it doesn't bleed all over like it- the wet inside environment of your body- was one big node.”

    Electricity flows through the path of least resistance. There is a reason action potentials stay within neurons and don’t spread to the extracellular space: the intracellular resistance is very low compared to the resistance across the membrane. If the membrane were punctured or if all neurons were directly connected with little resistance, current would freely flow throughout the system and communication between cells would be extremely difficult. This was all worked out by the end of the 19th century when the neuron doctrine started to win out over the reticular theory of the nervous system.

    If you want to go back in time 120 years and try to resurrect Golgi’s theory be my guest.

     
  • At 2:50 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Tantalus Prime:
    But what is the point of that?

    To reflect on the difference between what we use to power our appliances and what our bodies use for power.

    Tantalus Prime:
    blah, blah, blah...You are essentially claiming that electrical equipment does not need a power source.

    Not even close.

    TP:
    Electricity flows through the path of least resistance.

    Yes, I know.

    There is a reason action potentials stay within neurons and don’t spread to the extracellular space: the intracellular resistance is very low compared to the resistance across the membrane.

    There is also a reason our bodies use ions as opposed to electrons.

    You are not grasping what I am saying. You are responding to what you wanted me to be saying as opposed to what I said.

     
  • At 2:51 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Read "The Electric Universe" by David Bodanis...

     
  • At 3:00 PM, Blogger The whole truth said…

    I wonder if it's even possible to be dumber than you are Joe. Maybe you can use the so-called tools of ID to figure that out. LMAO!

    You know absolutely nothing about electricity. Water is an excellent conductor of electricity. The reason that a plugged-in heater or other electrical device shorts out when dropped into water is because the water is such a good conductor and both the positive and negative poles are submerged at the same time. The water 'connects' the poles.

    Tell you what Joe, why don't you take a bath and try it? While in the bath, drop a plugged-in heater or other electrical device into the water. Let us know how it works out.

    By the way, if UD wasn't enough of a forum for retards already, it certainly is with you posting there. You're quickly running that site into the cesspool of blind stupidity, and that you're allowed to post there, especially with your constant insulting remarks, shows clearly that UD is desperate for any traffic they can get in any way they can.

    UD is nothing but a place for delusional hypocrites like you who believe that they ARE god. You and your fellow ID-ists are chickenshit wimps who don't have the guts to debate anyone outside your safe havens. You uneducated punks wouldn't have a chance if you were to engage people on a site where there's no moderation or banning that caters to preserving the lies, bullshit, and proselytizing that's so rampant here and on UD.

    Do you and your butt buddies really think you're going to win anything or change the world by blocking out any opinions or evidence that doesn't fit into your completely unscientific, untestable, undefined, unspecified, vague, religion based rantings that are laughingly referred to as ID Theory?

    You've said that a position should be open to critical analysis Joe. How about your position, the ID position? Is it off limits to critical analysis?

    Let's see you put it to work. Calculate the CSI, specified complexity, FSCI, irreducible complexity, and ID in several extinct and extant organisms, and some non-living things in nature too. You can't do it, can you? Neither can anyone else. You're all talk and no action. Just like with the clown.

     
  • At 5:37 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    the whole tard,

    I know all about electricity.

    Water is not a good conductor- it is the dissolved minerals and gasses IN THE WATER that are the conducting materials.

    IOW you are a fucking ignorant piece of shit who thinks its ignorance is meaningful discourse.

    BTW UD doesn't block out opinions, it stops ignorant pieces of shit like you and your evotard ilk from polluting it.

    IOW it has standards you lowlifes cannot live up too.

     
  • At 5:48 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Conductivity of Water:

    Pure water is an electrical insulator. But provide an ionic compound in the form of salt, and you complete the circuit.

     
  • At 5:34 AM, Blogger The whole truth said…

    UD "has standards you lowlifes cannot live up too."

    That's hilarious Joe-boi. The only standards UD has is massive tard, dishonesty, pomposity, and hypocrisy, from ID supporters.

    Do these words look familiar Joe? You said them.:

    "You know your position is nonsense when it cannot handle being critically analyzed."

    And you don't know squat about electricity and water (or anything else).

     
  • At 7:12 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    the whole tard:
    The only standards UD has is massive tard, dishonesty, pomposity, and hypocrisy, from ID supporters.

    Coming from a piece of shit lying fuck like you that means absolutely nothing.

    the whole tard:
    Do these words look familiar Joe? You said them.:

    "You know your position is nonsense when it cannot handle being critically analyzed."

    It is true- your position cannot handle being critically analyzed.

    What was your point?


    And you don't know squat about electricity and water (or anything else).

    Except it is obvious I know more than you ever will.

    Go figure...

    (Strange how I provided references to support my claims about electricity and water)

     

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