Complex Specified Information
-
CSI- Complex Specified Information.
Information- see Shannon, Claude
(When Shannon developed his information theory he was not concerned about "specific effects":
And that is what separates mere complexity (Shannon) from specified complexity.)
Specified Information is Shannon Information with meaning/ function
Complex Specified Information is 500 bits or more of specified information
MathGrrl wants a mathematically rigorous definition of CSI and I say that is like asking for a mathematically rigorous definition of a computer program (which contains CSI).
The mathematical rigor went into calculating the probabilities that got us to 500 bits of SI = CSI
In the preceding and proceeding paragraphs William Dembski makes it clear that biological specification is CSI- complex specified information.
In the paper "The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories", Stephen C. Meyer wrote:
Biological functionality is specified information.
So what do we have to do to see if it contains CSI? Count the bits and figure out the variation tolerance because if any sequence can produce the same result then specified information disappears.
And again, CSI is all about origins…
CSI- Complex Specified Information.
Information- see Shannon, Claude
(When Shannon developed his information theory he was not concerned about "specific effects":
The word information in this theory is used in a special mathematical sense that must not be confused with its ordinary usage. In particular, information must not be confused with meaning.- Warren Weaver, one of Shannon's collaborators
And that is what separates mere complexity (Shannon) from specified complexity.)
Specified Information is Shannon Information with meaning/ function
Complex Specified Information is 500 bits or more of specified information
MathGrrl wants a mathematically rigorous definition of CSI and I say that is like asking for a mathematically rigorous definition of a computer program (which contains CSI).
The mathematical rigor went into calculating the probabilities that got us to 500 bits of SI = CSI
Biological specification always refers to function. An organism is a functional system comprising many functional subsystems. In virtue of their function, these systems embody patterns that are objectively given and can be identified independently of the systems that embody them. Hence these systems are specified in the same sense required by the complexity-specification criterion (see sections 1.3 and 2.5). The specification of organisms can be crashed out in any number of ways. Arno Wouters cashes it out globally in terms of the viability of whole organisms. Michael Behe cashes it out in terms of minimal function of biochemical systems.- Wm. Dembski page 148 of NFL
In the preceding and proceeding paragraphs William Dembski makes it clear that biological specification is CSI- complex specified information.
In the paper "The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories", Stephen C. Meyer wrote:
Dembski (2002) has used the term “complex specified information” (CSI) as a synonym for “specified complexity” to help distinguish functional biological information from mere Shannon information--that is, specified complexity from mere complexity. This review will use this term as well.
Biological functionality is specified information.
So what do we have to do to see if it contains CSI? Count the bits and figure out the variation tolerance because if any sequence can produce the same result then specified information disappears.
And again, CSI is all about origins…
posted by Joe G @ 2:03 PM
39 Comments:
At 2:57 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009/03/measuring-information-specified.html
At 2:59 PM,
Joe G said…
Yup, what's your point?
That's right Rich isn't intelligent enough to actually have one...
At 3:03 PM,
Joe G said…
How Rich measures information
At 7:25 PM,
Eugen said…
Hi Joe
Jemima troll said:
"Will you be copying the 1 in 3 failure rate to cancer? Or the very narrow range of temperatures and pressures life works at?"
I'm so frustrated that uneducated troll like that can post at UD while I'm in moderation.
What's wrong with moderators at UD?
Troll doesn't understand basic design constraints in bio chemistry of life.
At 8:24 PM,
Joe G said…
It's entertainment. JR is a clown so what else do you expect?
At 2:02 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
My pint is you should link to that on UD. They need a solid, bulletproof example like the one you have supplied.
PS - I think Blipey's email might be caught in your spam filter.
At 2:06 PM,
Joe G said…
I did- I linked to the dipstick on UD- according to evotards that is a solid, bulletproof method of measuring information.
At 2:07 PM,
Joe G said…
PS - I think Blipey's email might be caught in your spam filter.
Good place for it.
At 2:07 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
No, you should give them your rigorous 'CSI of a cake' example, about how its all about having a bill of materials and what not. They don't know where to start - put them straight!
At 2:08 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
"Good place for it."
Agreed. You're not really cut out for meet-ups.
At 2:13 PM,
Joe G said…
Rich:
You're not really cut out for meet-ups.
Just give me your address.
At 2:14 PM,
Joe G said…
Rich:
No, you should give them your rigorous 'CSI of a cake' example, about how its all about having a bill of materials and what not. They don't know where to start - put them straight!
Strange that you think your ignorant tard means something.
At 2:15 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
So you'll meet me but no a clown? How come?
At 2:15 PM,
Joe G said…
As for meeting blipey I told it what to do- either way give me his address or tell me what hotel/ motel he is staying in when he comes to new hampshire.
At 2:17 PM,
Joe G said…
Rich:
So you'll meet me but no a clown? How come?
I'll meet blipey but seeing he is only 5'8" @ 140 lbs I will have to bring along a 5th grader to take care of him.
I will lose my tough guy decoder ring if I mess with that pencil-neck geek....
At 2:17 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
"Strange that you think your ignorant tard means something."
Well, I obviously didn't get the full nuance of "counting the letters of the recipe", but I'm not as smart as those UD folks. try it out on them!
At 2:18 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
"I'll meet blipey"
Then reply to his email, chickenshit.
At 3:14 PM,
Joe G said…
Rich:
Well, I obviously didn't get the full nuance of "counting the letters of the recipe", ...
Obviously you are too stupid to get anything and that is why yo and your ilk use a dipstick to measure information.
At 3:17 PM,
Joe G said…
I'll meet blipey but seeing he is only 5'8" @ 140 lbs I will have to bring along a 5th grader to take care of him.
I will lose my tough guy decoder ring if I mess with that pencil-neck geek....
Rich:
Then reply to his email,
What email?
At 3:20 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
He's emailed you about a meet up at your 'frisbee' email adress. get checking, egg-layer!
Seriously - goi show them CSI of a cake, they need anything remotley mathy - they're getting such a licking.
Joe G saves the day! Feel like a hero again!
At 3:28 PM,
Joe G said…
OK so I will look for a 5th grader and his email.
As for the cake thing- you just don't realize how fucking retarded you are by continuing to flail away at it.
At 3:32 PM,
Joe G said…
And blipey can post his address here. Or he can post where in new hampshire he will be staying and performing.
I don't know if I risk opening an email from him. Kind of creeps me out that he sent me an email.
At 3:34 PM,
Joe G said…
As for the thread at UD well MathGrrl et al are all too far gone to deal with.
I tried to tell them but they won't have any of it.
At 3:43 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
"I don't know if I risk opening an email from him"
Eh? Run it through your antivirus if you're scared.
Bigger pussy than I thought!
You still stand behind your "cake" work then? Fantastic. That's the spirit!
At 4:43 PM,
Joe G said…
I stand up to bullies. blipey is smaller than my wife and two of my dogs. He needs to grow a little before he gets heard.
As for the cake thing, you're still too stupid to grasp it then. Super.
At 4:45 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
So after all that bluster including you giving a fake adress and then changing the terms for a meet up (which he's fulfilled) you're still chickening out? Priceless.
Hey, if the cake is still good, show it to mathgrrl.
At 4:49 PM,
Joe G said…
I didn't give a fake adress. You are a liar.
Also I will meet him and I didn't change anything. I have always said for him to tell me where he is staying and where he is performing- in new hampshire- date and times.
And he hasn't fulfilled anything.
That still stands.
The cake is good but mathgrrl is as stupid as you are, meaning she is hopeless.
At 4:50 PM,
Joe G said…
"Muskrat blipey, muskrat Rich
Rich says to blipey come and be my bitch
And they shimmy
blipey's so skinny"
"And they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed
Singin' and jingin' the jango
Floatin' like the heavens above
It looks like muskrat love"
What the fuck is it with you two?
At 4:55 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
"Also I will meet him and I didn't change anything"
okay - You'll be answering his email.
"The cake is good but mathgrrl is as stupid as you are, meaning she is hopeless."
Do it for the lurkers, Joe. Do it for teh other IDists. At least they'll have one, good, example, right?
At 5:01 PM,
Joe G said…
Rich:
okay - You'll be answering his email.
He can post his address here- or the other information.
He can post it here.
Why are you in such a rush to have your boyfriend hospitalized?
Is he the evotard sacrificial lamb?
I would rather start with some important evotards. It is a waste to start with the waste, but whatever.
"The cake is good but mathgrrl is as stupid as you are, meaning she is hopeless."
At 5:06 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
Joe, why are you so scared of email?
Is there anything you're not scared of?
Again, post the cake for the lurkers.
At 5:07 PM,
Joe G said…
"Muskrat blipey, muskrat Rich
Rich says to blipey come and be my bitch
And they shimmy
blipey's so skinny"
"And they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed
Singin' and jingin' the jango
Floatin' like the heavens above
It looks like muskrat love"
What the fuck is it with you two?
At 5:08 PM,
Joe G said…
Why can't blipey post the stuff here?
What is scared of?
Why is he the evotard sacrificial lamb?
Why are you so fucking stupid?
At 5:15 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
Why can't blipey post the stuff here?
Well, bots and spiders and all that. He's emailed you directly, and you don't let his posts go through (bwaaaaaaakakakaka).
Man up.
At 6:51 PM,
Joe G said…
Rich,
You are such an asshole that when you play with yourself it is anal sex.
At 7:31 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
all you're left with is (not very good) insults, eh Joe?
Such a shame.
At 8:20 PM,
Joe G said…
All you have, Rich, are bullshit, false accusations, bald assertions and lies.
You have nothing to offer and have yet to show a basic understanding of science and what is being debated.
You walk around with one thumb in your mouth an the other up your ass waiting for someone to ring the bell and say "switch".
The bell is ringing, Rich, and the voices are in your head...
Have a nice day.
At 11:35 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
CAEK
At 6:57 AM,
Joe G said…
Thank you for continuing to prove my point.
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