Intelligent Reasoning

Promoting, advancing and defending Intelligent Design via data, logic and Intelligent Reasoning and exposing the alleged theory of evolution as the nonsense it is. I also educate evotards about ID and the alleged theory of evolution one tard at a time and sometimes in groups

Wednesday, March 14, 2012

Joe Felsenstein- Quote- Mines Dembski and Throws a Fit When Exposed


Joe Felsenstein quote-mined Dembski to try to show that CSI pertains to fitness- that part in bold is the part that Joe F mined:
No Free lunch pages 148-49
Biological specification always refers to function. An organism is a functional system comprising many functional subsystems. In virtue of their function, these systems embody patterns that are objectively given and can be identified independently of the systems that embody them. Hence these systems are specified in the same sense required by the complexity-specification criterion (see sections 1.3 and 2.5). The specification of organisms can be crashed out in any number of ways. Arno Wouters cashes it out globally in terms of the viability of whole organisms. Michael Behe cashes it out in terms of minimal function of biochemical systems. Darwinist Richard Dawkins cashes out biological specification in terms of the reproduction of genes. Thus, in The Blind Watchmaker Dawkins writes, “Complicated things have some quality, specifiable in advance, that is highly unlikely to have been acquired by random chance alone. In the case of living things, the quality is specified in advance is…the ability to propagate genes in reproduction.”

The central problem of biology is therefore not simply the origin of information but the origin of complex specified information. Paul Davies emphasized this point in his recent book The Fifth Miracle where he summarizes the current state of origin-of-life research: “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.” The problem of specified complexity has dogged origin-of-life research now for decades. Leslie Orgel recognized the problem in the early 1970s: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.”

The point being is that Joe F needs to explain those reproducers but he appears to be too stupid to grasp that bit...


  • At 8:52 PM, Blogger Joe Felsenstein said…

    Oh hooey. I have repeatedly pointed out that Dembski's CSI criterion is not just about the Origin Of Life, which is your (silly) assertion. No one else, even among ID advocates, agrees with you as far as I can see. Throw a fit, did I? Well, admittedly I did say "Hogwash!".

    And I'm happy to say it again. Hogwash!

    If I ever "throw a fit" I guarantee you'll really know it.

  • At 6:48 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    What is wrong with you? I just provided CDembski's words saying that CSI pertains to origins.

    Section 3.8 is titled "The Origin of Complex Specified Information"- and "The Signature in the Cell" confirms CSI and ID are all about the OoL.

    IOW you don't have a clue.

  • At 6:52 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    The central problem of biology is therefore not simply the origin of information but the origin of complex specified information.- Wm Dembski in "No Free Lunch"

    IOW Joe Felsenstein proves that he is clueless.

    Is that what you were shooting for?

  • At 11:38 PM, Blogger blipey said…

    Which part of that Dembski quote says Origin of Life? Perhaps I missed it.

    Let's take it word by word:

    1. The no
    2. central no
    3. problem no
    4. of no
    5. biology no
    6. is no
    7. therefore no (this isn't going well)
    8. not no
    9. simply no
    10. the no (repeated though, CSI????)
    11. origin no
    12. of no
    13. information no
    14. but no
    15. the no (woo nelly, again)
    16. origin no
    17. of no
    18. complex no
    19. specified no
    20. information no

    Hmmm, 20 words and not one mention of the origin of life. Perhaps you point out where that occur?

  • At 8:14 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    The central problem of biology is therefore not simply the origin of information but the origin of complex specified information.

    First sentence of the second paragraph.

    And then there is "No Free Lunch"- Complex Specified Information Pertains to Origins

    IOW, Erik, thank you for continuing to prove that you are an ignorant piece-of-shit.

  • At 5:39 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    biology = the study of living organisms

    the origin of complex specified information = "the ability to propagate genes in reproduction" = OoL

  • At 9:04 PM, Blogger Joe G said…


    I’m sure CSI pertains to origins.- Elizabeth Liddle


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