Intelligent Reasoning

Promoting, advancing and defending Intelligent Design via data, logic and Intelligent Reasoning and exposing the theory of evolution as the nonsense it is. I also educate evotards about ID and the theory of evolution one tard at a time and sometimes in groups

Thursday, March 15, 2012

"No Free Lunch"- Complex Specified Information Pertains to Origins

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Elizabeth Liddle and Joe Felsenstein are quite the TARDs (include MathGrrl) by trying to tell me that it is my personal opinion that complex specified information (CSI) pertains to origins.

Well then, to support my alleged "personal opinion" I give you William Dembski from his book "No Free Lunch"- the book that first discusses CSI:

No Free lunch pages 148-49
Biological specification always refers to function. An organism is a functional system comprising many functional subsystems. In virtue of their function, these systems embody patterns that are objectively given and can be identified independently of the systems that embody them. Hence these systems are specified in the same sense required by the complexity-specification criterion (see sections 1.3 and 2.5). The specification of organisms can be crashed out in any number of ways. Arno Wouters cashes it out globally in terms of the viability of whole organisms. Michael Behe cashes it out in terms of minimal function of biochemical systems. Darwinist Richard Dawkins cashes out biological specification in terms of the reproduction of genes. Thus, in The Blind Watchmaker Dawkins writes, “Complicated things have some quality, specifiable in advance, that is highly unlikely to have been acquired by random chance alone. In the case of living things, the quality is specified in advance is…the ability to propagate genes in reproduction.”

The central problem of biology is therefore not simply the origin of information but the origin of complex specified information. Paul Davies emphasized this point in his recent book The Fifth Miracle where he summarizes the current state of origin-of-life research: “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.” The problem of specified complexity has dogged origin-of-life research now for decades. Leslie Orgel recognized the problem in the early 1970s: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.”

Where, then, does complex specified information or CSI come from, and where is it incapable of coming from? According to Manfred Eigen, CSI comes from algorithms and natural laws. As he puts it, “Our task is to find an algorithm, a natural law that leads to the origin of [complex specified] information.” The only question for Eigen is which algorithms and natural laws explain the origin of CSI. The logically prior question of whether algorithms and natural laws are even in principle capable of explaining the origin of CSI is one he ignores. And yet it is this very question that undermines the entire project of naturalistic origins-of-life research. Algorithms and natural laws are in principle incapable of explaining the origin of CSI. To be sure, algorithms and natural laws can explain the flow of CSI. Indeed, algorithms and natural laws are ideally suited for transmitting already existing CSI. As we shall see next, what they cannot do is explain its origin. (bold added)

The very next section, section 3.8 is titled "The Origin of Complex Specified Information"

That is quite the "personal opinion" I have formulated. I have no idea how I could have even reached it. ;)

And evoTARDs wonder why no one but the evoTARD faithful, take them seriously.

7 Comments:

  • At 9:46 AM, Blogger Joe Felsenstein said…

    Just pointing out that Dembski uses the phrase "origin of complex specified information" a lot does not establish that CSI only comes into being at the Origin Of Life. Show me the place where Dembski says that his argument applies only at the OOL and that he is not discussing later evolutionary processes.

    Why does Dembski devote so much effort to discussing Dawkins's "Weasel" program, for example? It is not a simulation of the OOL, it is a simulation of a simple process of natural selection, well after the OOL.

    You can insult people all you want -- this is your own blog. But the fact remains that you have mischaracterized Dembski, and mischaracterized my quotations of him by calling them quote-mines.

     
  • At 9:53 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    LoL!!!

    Just pointing out that Dembski uses the phrase "origin of complex specified information" a lot does not establish that CSI only comes into being at the Origin Of Life.

    WRT biology CSI pertains to the OoL. Other than that CSI pertains to its origins- as in "where did it come from in the FIRST place?"

    Show me the place where Dembski says that his argument applies only at the OOL and that he is not discussing later evolutionary processes.

    I just did- what is your problem?

    Why does Dembski devote so much effort to discussing Dawkins's "Weasel" program, for example?

    Because evotards use it as an example of darwinian processes producing CSI.

    It is not a simulation of the OOL, it is a simulation of a simple process of natural selection, well after the OOL.

    weasel doesn't have antything to do with natural selection.

    But the fact remains that you have mischaracterized Dembski,

    Just because you, an obvious loser, sez so, that does not make it so.

    The Dawkins' quote in my OP proves Dembski is referring to the ooL- and everything after that, including section 3.8, conforms it.

    IOW Joe Felsenstein, you are one ignorant, quote-mining son of a bitch.

     
  • At 2:26 AM, Blogger blipey said…

    You aren't actually trying to point out facts to Joe are you? Good luck.

     
  • At 6:37 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    True, it is a waste of time to point out the facts to Joe F or you- or any evoTARD for that matter...

     
  • At 1:40 PM, Blogger The whole truth said…

    What's the matter joe g, are you afraid to post my comments?

     
  • At 3:16 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    What's the matter creodant/ TWiT/ faggot? Too afraid to actually stay on-topic or produce some EVIDENCE that what I said is incorrect?

    Felsenstein doesn't have a fucking clue and obvioulsy neother do you.

     
  • At 9:05 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Oops:

    I’m sure CSI pertains to origins.- Elizabeth Liddle

     

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