"Random", with Respect to Biology and Evolution
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People, evos in particular, seem to have a difficult time understanding the what the word random means with respect to biology and the theory of evolution. Let me see if I can help them out.
As plain as can be, with respect to biology and the theory of evolution, the word random means, happenstance, not planned, no purpose nor objective, haphazard, accidental.
That's it. So when someone says something about random mutations that is what they are talking about.
People, evos in particular, seem to have a difficult time understanding the what the word random means with respect to biology and the theory of evolution. Let me see if I can help them out.
As plain as can be, with respect to biology and the theory of evolution, the word random means, happenstance, not planned, no purpose nor objective, haphazard, accidental.
That's it. So when someone says something about random mutations that is what they are talking about.
posted by Joe G @ 4:25 PM
51 Comments:
At 4:28 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
...Because idiot fatty gets to define how other,smarter and more qualified people people are using the word.
Good grief.
At 5:33 PM,
Joe G said…
...Because an ignorant faggot gets to spew unsupported inuendos.
Good grief, indeed
No RichTARD, the way I said is the way evolutionary biologists use it. For example see Mayr, "What Evolution Is" page 281.
38 Nobel Laureates say:
Logically derived from confirmable evidence, evolution is understood to be the result of an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection.
And more support for my cliams can be found here
OK Captain Coward, what the fuck do YOU have? I know I can find more support for my claims. Yet it appears you have nothing or you would have posted it.
Your bluff is called and exposed, again, as usual.
At 5:51 PM,
OgreMkV said…
So if one section of DNA has a higher likelihood of mutation than another section... is it still random?
Support your yes or no answer.
At 5:55 PM,
OgreMkV said…
Hey Joe,
if one organism survives because it was born with a gene that increased its muscle efficiency by 0.1%
AND
another organism died because it was born with a mutation that left it susceptible to a particular virus
is the survival or non-survival random?
Support your yes or no answer.
At 7:49 PM,
Joe G said…
So if one section of DNA has a higher likelihood of mutation than another section... is it still random?
Most likely that is by design.
However, in the context of the OP and the theory of evolution, ALL genetic changes are random/ happenstance.
Tha is if we listen to evolutionary biologists such as Jerry Coyne, Dawkins and Ernst Mayr.
At 7:52 PM,
Joe G said…
if one organism survives because it was born with a gene that increased its muscle efficiency by 0.1%
What is the mutation or mutations?
Or is this just hypothetical?
And what does it have to do with the OP? Be specific
another organism died because it was born with a mutation that left it susceptible to a particular virus
What is the mutation or mutations? And if the virus is never present in that organism's eco-system the organism has no worries.
Survival depends on many variables, Kevin.
However you don't understand genetics not evidence so it is all moot.
At 7:54 PM,
Joe G said…
So far so good- Captain Coward shows up with his usual bluffing cowardice. And he is followed by another cluekless dolt who can't even stay on-topic and discuss the OP.
Yeah baby...
At 11:46 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
Gossip Queen Josephine - reading for comprehension is clearly beyond you.
You said "As plain as can be, with respect to biology and the theory of evolution, the word random means, happenstance, not planned, no purpose nor objective, haphazard, accidental."
They said: "Logically derived from confirmable evidence, evolution is understood to be the result of an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection."
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/composition.html
Thanks, Fatty.
At 11:48 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
What a fucking idiot:
"So if one section of DNA has a higher likelihood of mutation than another section... is it still random?
Most likely that is by design."
If some outcomes of the summation of two dice have a higher likelihood of occurance than other outcomes... is it still random?
LOL@JOEFAIL. Go cry into your donuts, Gossip Queen.
At 12:02 AM,
Joe G said…
So more cowardly inuendos and still nothing that refutes anything I have said.
And in cowardly fashion RichTARD faggot FAIL doesn't even visit the other reference.
Is that all you have?
At 12:09 AM,
Joe G said…
You said "As plain as can be, with respect to biology and the theory of evolution, the word random means, happenstance, not planned, no purpose nor objective, haphazard, accidental."
That's right and that is supported by Coyne, Dawkins, Darwin, Mayr and others.
At 12:10 AM,
Joe G said…
So if one section of DNA has a higher likelihood of mutation than another section... is it still random?
Most likely that is by design."
If some outcomes of the summation of two dice have a higher likelihood of occurance than other outcomes... is it still random?
If Richie is an evoTARD fag does he really matter? Or is he just another random idiot?
LoL! @RichiefagFAIL
At 12:26 AM,
Joe G said…
LoL! @RichFAGFAIL!
http://stattrek.com/probability-distributions/probability-distribution.aspx
No Richie, that does NOTHING to refute anything I have aid about random with respect to BIOLOGY and EVOLUTION.
I know CONTEXT is something that COWARDS try to avoid, but good grief.
At 12:37 AM,
Joe G said…
And another reference that supports me:
The Role of Chance in Evolution
Mutations are truly chance events...
At 12:43 AM,
Joe G said…
And Christian de Duve:
A majority of biologists subscribe in one form or another to the main tenets of the theory, first proposed by Charles Darwin, that biological evolution is the outcome of accidentally arising genetic variations passively screened by natural selection according to the ability of the variants to survive and reproduce progeny under prevailing environmental conditions.- in Mysteries of Life: Is there “Something Else”?
At 9:37 AM,
Joe G said…
Life is good- not one evoTARD can produce anything that refutes what I said about random with respect to biology and evolution AND I have supported my claims.
At 10:12 AM,
Rich Hughes said…
Yeah, Just owned you again at AtBC, Fatty, which is where I'll be commenting from now on, because that's where the readserhip is.
Life is good.
At 10:19 AM,
Joe G said…
"Owned" by an ignorant faggot who doesn't even understand the basics? How does that work, exactly?
At 12:54 AM,
bpragmatic said…
Evolutionist slugs, move so slow, ther beloved speculations are pure bullshit. Their puny times of conciousness relegate their assertions as inconsequential gibberish. You hyper speculative sons of bitches are nothing but destruction to society at large. Thus far you have been protected by the false security of so called acedemia. This horseshit false barrier of protection is going to fall like a fucking rock. And you slum motherfuckers will find yourselves begging for mercy. YouR speculations are the basis for themajority of suffering and destruction of uncountless inocent people around the world. While you sit in your ivory towers in positions of priveledge spewing your self serving bullshit to the rest of the world with the false claim the this is science or truth.
At 1:24 AM,
bpragmatic said…
richard hughes
put your dick back in your pants fuckhead. You and the philosophy that you love are from a scientific perspective, are so fucking far away from demonstrating your assertions, that you should be fucking shot for even promoting them as being supporting real science you mother fucker. what you should do is go home an continue to suck on your mothers tit to survive, because your belief system is bankrupt., And if you are making a living by collecting money on the public tit ie, teaching so called science, your ass will be gone shortly from the privelidge of leading younsters in the quest for scientific truth. In other words, your personally driven speculations will not longer get you a paycheck and reality will prevail, asshole.th
At 8:50 AM,
Joe G said…
Good morning bpragmatic- did I give you permission to whup on my bitch, Richie?
LoL! Have at it....
At 8:59 AM,
Joe G said…
BTW bpragmatic, Richie ran away because he is a cowardly inuendo spewer who was exposed as the coward it is.
At 10:53 AM,
Rich Hughes said…
The coward is the one who doesn't promote all the comments: Joe. I'll be at AtBC, where all the comments make it through.
At 11:03 AM,
Joe G said…
Richie- I post all on-topic comments. Don't blame me because you are too much of a coward to obey my blog rules.
And you can stay over on atbc- no one cares what you assholes say there. People do realize that you are just a bunch of ignorant imbeciles.
At 11:11 AM,
Joe G said…
As for atbc, my comments get edited there, so why should I bother?
At 11:21 AM,
Rich Hughes said…
Examples - what was edited and suppressed?
I'll bet that far more comments make it through at AtBC than here and the readership is much bigger.
At 11:26 AM,
Joe G said…
Examples of what has been removed? Well all my comments from other threads, except the thread addressed to me. And my one opening post was edited.
Also the "readership" of atbc is just more morons.
So whatever Richie- you have nothing and you know it. THAT is why you are running back to atbc. You have other tards there that will stick up for you.
At 11:31 AM,
Rich Hughes said…
Joe, in typical creationist fashion, you need to control and manage the message.
And I'm not surprised, given the whupping you just got over at AtBC. I'm amazed you didn't melt down and post pictures of ladies genitalia (again).
At 11:40 AM,
Joe G said…
Yes, there are too many cowardly evoTARDs that pollute blogs- and guess what assface? Evos also control and manage their message.
And the imagined whopping is just that- imagined. On your best day you couldn't whup a little girl.
And why would I melt down because I was "attacked" by a bunch of cowardly losers?
You fuckers still don't have a clue.
And my $10,000 offer to debate any of you still stands. And it is very telling that no one has taken it.
At 11:42 AM,
Rich Hughes said…
"And my $10,000 offer to debate any of you still stands" - this is my favourite creationist ploy. ;-)
You're simply not credible, parking-lot-Joe-Jim-John Paul.
And science isn't settled in debates, is it? Peer Reviewed Journals.
At 1:06 PM,
Joe G said…
Your ignorance and stupidity will be exposed by a debate, coward.
And seeing that your posuition doesn't have anything to do with science,your imagined issue is moot.
Peer-review? There still isn't anything in peer-review that supports the claim that accumulations of genetic accidents can construct new multi-protein configurations.
But you wouldn't know that because you are ignorant.
At 1:12 PM,
Joe G said…
So to recap- hail is STILL made up of ICE and "random" wrt biology, evolution and "random" mutations, still means happenstance, not planned, no purpose nor objective, haphazard, accidental.
So what could this alleged whopping be?
At 1:50 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
And here we have the oldest creationist trick in the book, repeating claims that have already been thoroughly refuted. Kent Hovind would be proud!
http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=14;t=6647;st=4920#entry209110
http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=14;t=6647;st=4920#entry209124
Why be bothers is a strange question, his readership is almost exclusively those who have corrected him.
At 4:55 PM,
Joe G said…
RichTARD FAIL-
http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=14;t=6647;st=4920#entry209110
Is NOT about biology, evolution nor mutations.
All my references pertain to biology, evolution and mutations.
Richie is an ignorant faggot.
And anyone who can read will see that my OP and therefore the topic, pertains to "random" as in random mutations. However the random walk wrt evolution is due to those random mutations.
And hail is STILL made up of ICE you fucking desperate housewives.
At 5:03 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
Joe sniffles "Is NOT about biology, evolution nor mutations."
The title of the book?:
"Random walks in biology".
Amazon categorises it as:
#59 in Books > Professional & Technical > Professional Science > Biological Sciences > Biophysics
You must work really hard at being stupid, Josephine gossip queen.
At 5:08 PM,
Joe G said…
The part you linked to, dumbass- your quote-mine over on atbc
At 5:24 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
You mean this, Fatty:
"Book Description
Publication Date: September 7, 1993 | ISBN-10: 0691000646 | ISBN-13: 978-0691000640 | Edition: Revised
This book is a lucid, straightforward introduction to the concepts and techniques of statistical physics that students of biology, biochemistry, and biophysics must know. It provides a sound basis for understanding random motions of molecules, subcellular particles, or cells, or of processes that depend on such motion or are markedly affected by it. Readers do not need to understand thermodynamics in order to acquire a knowledge of the physics involved in diffusion, sedimentation, electrophoresis, chromatography, and cell motility--subjects that become lively and immediate when the author discusses them in terms of random walks of individual particles."
How exactly is this a quote mine?
At 5:39 PM,
Joe G said…
How does it refute anything I have said? How does it address anything I have said?
Please be specific, or fuck off, tardface
At 5:52 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
Joefail: "that random walk is due to the random mutations/ variations you fucking loser."
And the how many times does the book mention 'mutation'?
Tell us, gossip queen.
At 5:56 PM,
Joe G said…
How does it refute anything I have said? How does it address anything I have said?
Please be specific, or fuck off, tardface
Are you saying the random walk in biology is not due to the random mutations? The random steps that your wikipedia link talked about is NOT the random mutations?
Reference please- make your case you ignorant fuck
At 6:01 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
Joe, cupcake:
cell motility - the direction cells move in and how they move, is not "Random mutations".
You arguing:
"So if one section of DNA has a higher likelihood of mutation than another section... is it still random?
Most likely that is by design."
Just shows that you don't understand random. Random does not have to be equiprobable, Fatty.
Me:
"If some outcomes of the summation of two dice have a higher likelihood of occurrence than other outcomes... is it still random?
LOL@JOEFAIL. Go cry into your donuts, Gossip Queen."
So you don't understand:
"Random", "Biology", "Evolution" and "Mutation". That's quite a good list for one posts!
At 6:05 PM,
Joe G said…
cell motility - the direction cells move in and how they move, is not "Random mutations".
Then it doesn't have anything to do with what I am saying
Random does not have to be equiprobable
I never said nor implied that it had to you fucking asshole.
You are obvioulsy just a psychotic fuck Richie.
At 6:13 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
You don't understand what you write. Given the reply speed and the typos, that's understandable.
Joe:
"that random walk is due to the random mutations/ variations you fucking loser"
No it isn't. It's a description of a model of cell motility. You've not read the book, you're just blurting like an imbecile.
"Random does not have to be equiprobable
I never said nor implied that it had to you fucking asshole."
Fatty, before:
"So if one section of DNA has a higher likelihood of mutation than another section... is it still random?
Most likely that is by design."
You question if non uniform probability distributions are "still random?"
and then conclude
"Most likely that is by design"
because you're and idiot who doesn't understand "Random", "Biology", "Evolution" and "Mutation".
At 6:18 PM,
Joe G said…
Rich- You ignorant fuck- CONTEXT- Biology AND EVOLUTION- a cell's movement has NOTHING to do with evolution.
The random walk wrt biology AND evolution is the accumulations of random mutations.
So if one section of DNA has a higher likelihood of mutation than another section... is it still random?
Most likely that is by design.
So you are too stupid to understand my answer and you have to twist it like the dishonest, ignorant fuck that you are?
And the evidence says I understand "Random", "Biology", "Evolution" and "Mutation". better than you ever will.
At 6:24 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
"You ignorant fuck- CONTEXT- Biology AND EVOLUTION"
Now, fatty, what's that word you've not made BOLD? Idiot
And motility isn't about evolution? Tell UD to stop harping on about bacterial flagella, then.
At 6:25 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
"The random walk wrt biology AND evolution is the accumulations of random mutations."
Pricelessly stupid. Well done!
At 6:26 PM,
Joe G said…
You stupid fuck- the thing about the bacterial flagellum is its EVOLUTION.
At 6:28 PM,
Joe G said…
"The random walk wrt biology AND evolution is the accumulations of random mutations."
Pricelessly stupid.
Yes, you are.
Well done!
You have been done for quite some time...
At 6:30 PM,
Joe G said…
Ya see Richie, THIS is why I want to get you in a $10,000 debate. That way when you think you won I will be sitting there counting all of MY money.
At 7:05 PM,
Rich Hughes said…
Joe, given your meetup history, it's not going to happen. And I'm not going to take food off your family's table - they have it hard enough already (living with you).
At 7:48 PM,
Joe G said…
Great, more cowardly inuendos.
No Richie, given that fact that you are a cowardly mental midget, it ain't going to happen.
And Richie, by your "logic" you would be helping my family as I will be on the boat I would buy with the money I would easily take from you.
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