"Panspermia Past and Present"- OoL looking good for ID
- Astrophysical and Biophysical Conditions for the
Dissemination of Life in Space:
Dissemination of Life in Space:
It has been known for a long while that random chemical interactions cannot produce the genetic information of the organisms we currently see on Earth (Argyle 1977, Hoyle 1980, Hart 1982, Barrow and Tipler 1986, Wesson 1990). For example, in a model of the prebiotic Earth with an appropriate complement of amino acids, random molecular interactions over a period of 500 x 106 yr would produce only about 194 bits of information (Argyle 1977). This is far short of the 1.2 x 105 bits in a typical virus, and tiny compared to the 6 x 106 bits in a bacterium like E. Coli. The low gain in information I from N trials is because the two things are related by I = log2 N . There are in principle two ways to circumvent this problem. One is that life in fact evolved solely on the Earth, but by some non-random, directed molecular process. The other is that life evolved on the Earth and other planets because they were seeded by biological molecules which already had a large information content. Both of these hypotheses have objections; but in view of the near-inevitability of this process shown above, the second appears to be the more plausible.
16 Comments:
At 11:20 PM, Rich Hughes said…
Oh noes! spontaneous generation without iteration is unlikely!!!111one.
At 7:16 AM, Joe G said…
Oh noes- Richtard still doesn't have any positive evidence for hios position so all he can do is spew more nonsense...
At 7:33 AM, Joe G said…
And iteration without evidence is nonsense...
Geez Richtard thinks there is some magical ratchet that was used to create life and its diversity...
At 9:36 AM, Rich Hughes said…
"And iteration without evidence is nonsense..."
Fossil record, anyone? Geez, we can see changes happening today. The fact we're not clones of our parents should give you a clue.
At 9:45 AM, Joe G said…
Richtard:
Fossil record, anyone?
You fucking moron we are talking aout the origin of living organisms.
The fossil record doesn't say anything about any mechanism and no one knows how it was formed.
At 9:59 AM, Rich Hughes said…
"You fucking moron we are talking aout the origin of living organisms."
And do you think the origional proto-life was what is being described above?
At 10:04 AM, Joe G said…
Richtard:
And do you think the origional proto-life was what is being described above?
The paper talks about panspermia because the origin of living organisms did not occur on this planet.
At 10:12 AM, Rich Hughes said…
"The paper talks about panspermia because the origin of living organisms did not occur on this planet."
Beg the question much?
At 3:40 PM, CBD said…
Joe,
You might be interested in this
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2010/11/workshop-on-ori.html#more
you can ask questions to the experts and tell them where they've been going wrong.
Here's a snippet of the program:
1:05 pm – 1:30 pm EST
Replaying the Tape of Life: The Potential of Evolution as a Predictive Science
Lynn Rothschild
NASA Ames Research Center
1:30 pm – 1:50 pm EST
CO and the Evolution of Methanogenesis
Greg Ferry
Pennsylvania State University
1:50 pm – 2:10 pm EST
Iron-Sulfur Enzyme Evolution
John Peters
Montana State University
2:10 pm – 2:30 pm EST
Metals, Sulfide and Phosphate Bring Wet Rocky Worlds to Life
Mike Russell
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory
2:30 pm – 2:50 pm EST
Iron-Sulfur Mineral Based Prebiotic Chemistry
Robert Szilagyi
Montana State University
See you there!
At 4:32 PM, Joe G said…
"The paper talks about panspermia because the origin of living organisms did not occur on this planet."
Rich:
Beg the question much?
Not when the paper is based on scientific data, evidence, observations and experiences.
At 5:21 PM, Rich Hughes said…
No, you've assumed your premise in the question. Clearly. The paper does no such thing.
At 5:30 PM, Joe G said…
Rich:
No, you've assumed your premise in the question.
What question?
At 5:40 PM, Rich Hughes said…
Well teh overarching question would be how panspermia seeded the planet. This assumes, a-priori that it was panspermia. And now a few noted for the dim-witted.
This would push abiogenesis back in time, when there where even less probabilistic resources available.
The paper is largely concerned with planetry seeding via random and undirected fragments of a world that once contained life. This is NOT ID.
The math for creating ex-nilho a virus doesn't comport to any abiogenesis conjecture that's out there. It is a lazy rehash of 747/Junkyard/Tornado.
At 5:45 PM, Joe G said…
Rich:
Well teh overarching question would be how panspermia seeded the planet. This assumes, a-priori that it was panspermia.
Did you read the paper?
There isn't any evidence living organisms appeared here via blind, undirected chemical processes.
Rich:
This would push abiogenesis back in time, when there where even less probabilistic resources available.
In the design scenario the probabilistic resources are 1.
In your scenario no one knows what resources are even required.
Rich:
The paper is largely concerned with planetry seeding via random and undirected fragments of a world that once contained life. This is NOT ID.
Right- ID is only concerned with the origins.
Rich:
The math for creating ex-nilho a virus doesn't comport to any abiogenesis conjecture that's out there.
All abiogenesis conjectures are based on wishful thinking and nothing more.
At 7:26 PM, CBD said…
Joe
In the design scenario the probabilistic resources are 1.
How do you work that out then?
How many humans have you observed causing the origin of life on planet Earth millions of years ago?
I can't think of any other designer we know about or have any evidence for that could potentially do such a thing.
Can you think of one Joe?
At 8:30 AM, Joe G said…
In the design scenario the probabilistic resources are 1.
OM:
How do you work that out then?
Work what out?
OM:
How many humans have you observed causing the origin of life on planet Earth millions of years ago?
What does that have to do with anything?
I take it you don't understand science.
OM:
I can't think of any other designer we know about or have any evidence for that could potentially do such a thing.
The evidence is all around you.
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