Intelligent Reasoning

Promoting, advancing and defending Intelligent Design via data, logic and Intelligent Reasoning and exposing the alleged theory of evolution as the nonsense it is. I also educate evotards about ID and the alleged theory of evolution one tard at a time and sometimes in groups

Friday, April 12, 2013

Andreas Schueler Chokes Again- When "Groups Under Groups" Are NOT "Groups Within Groups"

Nested hierarchies are "groups within groups". For example with Linnean Classification the Animal Kingdom consists of and contains Phyla, which in turn consist of and contain Classes and so on. This scheme exhibits summativity. All nested hierachies exhibit summativity. If it doesn't exhibit summativity then it ain't a nested hierarchy. That is what is meant by "groups within groups".

Now it is true that this groups within groups scheme can be displayed as groups under groups. Phyla are under Kingdom. Classes are under Phyla and so on.

For some reason it appears that Andy thinks that this means all groups under groups are also a nested hierarchy. However it is obvious that ancestor populations do not consist of nor contain its descendent populations. That means that any and all schemes that depict ancestor-descendent relationships are non-nested hierarchies because a parent population does not consist of nor contain its descendent populations and it does not exhibit summativity.

Darwin's diagram in "On the Origins of Species..." is a non-nested hierarchy. Non-nested hierarchies are groups under groups (or groups sunordinate to groups) without being groups within groups.

And that brings us to another point- Andy's ignorance of summativity betray's his alleged knowledge of nested hierarchies.

Again for Andy- summary of the principles of hierarchy theory:

Nested and non-nested hierarchies:  nested hierarchies involve levels which consist of, and contain, lower levels. Non-nested hierarchies are more general in that the requirement of containment of lower levels is relaxed. For example, an army consists of a collection of soldiers and is made up of them. Thus an army is a nested hierarchy. On the other hand, the general at the top of a military command does not consist of his soldiers and so the military command is a non-nested hierarchy with regard to the soldiers in the army. Pecking orders and a food chains are also non-nested hierarchies.
THAT is why a family tree, with the parents at the top, is NOT a nested hierarchy. Parents do not consist of nor contain, their children.

Andy also seems to take issue with the fact that nested hierarchies require definitions for its sets and levels:

Level of organization: this type of level fits into its hierarchy by virtue of set of definitions that lock the level in question to those above and below. For example, a biological population level is an aggregate of entities from the organism level of organization, but it is only so by definition. There is no particular scale involved in the population level of organization, in that some organisms are larger than some populations, as in the case of skin parasites.
Seriously- how does he thinks the entities occupy the space the are given? Does he think someone just puts them there because they want to?



  • At 7:29 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    Still not picked any judges, chickenshit? everyone, including you, knows you lost. You always do.

    Poor fatty.

  • At 8:45 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    If you weren't so fucking ignorant, you could be a judge, cupcake pom-poms.

    The only people who think I lost are the same people who are as ignorant as you.

    Even dipshit Andy finally agreed with me on one of my claims. Now there is this last bit of his tard to clear up.

    Andy is his own worst judge.

    It must suck being you, Richie. Relegated to cheerleading, throwing stones and always just a side-show distraction.


  • At 8:54 PM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    You don't even venture onto atbc any more, such was your beat-down. Caught out again and again. On UD you tattle on TSZ and lick KFs ass. You're his bitch, it's cringeworthy. You hide on your blog and delete difficult comments. I find it gratifying, the wanna be bully who keeps shitting his pants.

  • At 9:10 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Side-show Richie.

    Pathetic little imp, relegated to cheerleading throwing stones and cowardly distractions.

    I find that VERY gratifying.

    Thank you, cupcake.

    And BTW, just reading your ignorant spewage and diatribe is difficult. Is that what you meant by difficult comments? The comments that have nothing to do with any topic but just spew childish taunts?

    Those difficult comments?



    PS- It is very telling that you still can't deal with the topic. So don't blame me because YOU are too chickenshit to stay on-topic or post anything of substance.

  • At 9:14 PM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Richie the beat-down with the limp noodle Hughes.

    Can I call you limpy? Limpy and blimpy.

    This could be magic...

  • At 1:06 AM, Blogger Rich Hughes said…

    I'm sorry you have reading difficulties Joe, but not suprised.

    Still not picked any judges and so you can have $10k? Why is that again?

    You idiots are funny. I hand you some design detecting science (Benfords law) and you don't want it - you keep moaning about Darwin and materialism, which is what we expect from a religious movement.

    So keep hiding on your blog, bully wanna be. You've been caught in do many lies you're an Internet joke, cupcaek-first fatty.

  • At 8:12 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

    Yes, Richie, you are sorry. And you are a moron if you think Andy will ever pay me. As I said he is his own worst judge.

    And I see that you are still a clueless egomaniac. You didn't hand IDists anything. We do not moan about materialism and Darwin. We just point out that both are fatally flawed. And that is what one should expect from science- to point out the fatally flawed concpts.

    And how am I hiding in plain sight?

    YOU have been caught in many so lies and false accusations that you have earned the nmae "Captain Coward".

    So please keep trying to beat me with your limp noodle.

    Richie "Limpy" Hughes, relegated to cheerleading, throwing stones and always just a side-show distraction.

  • At 2:51 PM, Blogger bpragmatic said…

    Thanks for the info Joe. I appreciate it! Please keep the informative posts coming.


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